VPN Overview Rewrite #2117

ghost · 2023-04-08T17:01:09Z

Changes proposed in this PR:

Incorporate additional info links into the article
Update info and elaborate on things that need to be more in-depth

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docs/basics/vpn-overview.md

quackerex · 2023-04-09T00:32:35Z

What are your thoughts on mentioning Multi-Party Relays (MPRs)?
Article about MPRs: Why VPNs are Wrong and MPRs are Right

jonaharagon · 2023-04-09T01:39:55Z

We should look into them more and probably mention them. The main issue is that the only two commercial options I know of are the two mentioned in that blog post (the blog author's and iCloud), but since Tor is also technically a Multi-Party Relay, it would be good to outline the different threat models they serve compared to traditional VPNs.

dngray · 2023-04-09T07:00:40Z

I also wouldn't be opposed to writing something about DVPNs and mentioning https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/comparing-dvpns-centralized-vpns-privacy-protection/ and the risks with them and also why we don't recommend them. They do come up from time to time and it would be nice to be able to point to a particular section. While that article is by a centralized VPN service, it does raise some very important points being that:

You don't have transparency over who runs the nodes, they could be logging
Most are not multi-node services like Tor, and are single nodes, which yield less security than regular centralized VPN service with infrastructure that is regularly audited and set up by professionals
A lot of them are closed networks, (like .i2p, .onion) and there is no outproxy for regular data.
I briefly tried to discuss it here https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/decentralized-vpns-and-routing-networks/11818 but we all came to the same conclusion
Further when I last checked some were rather lacking in documentation, most of t hem have glossy websites and I think are intended to push some "cryptocurrency".
and had very few nodes in general. One of them I looked at was about 400, meaning that a some kind of sybil attack would be quite possible with low cost to the attacker.

jermanuts · 2023-04-12T14:57:22Z

@jonaharagon The problem with all of MPRs (two-hop) is that they require some server (or servers) which relay the traffic and someone has to pay for those servers and their associated bandwidth. iCloud Private Relay and most VPNs are not free, so the user is the one who pays. Tor (three hops) is different: instead of having a single provider such as Apple or your VPN provider, Tor servers are operated by the Tor community on a volunteer basis and are free to users.

While the problem with tor is the 1st and 3rd nodes with MPRs (two hops), you have to trust the both relay companies to not correlate/share information about connected user.

@dngray sounds good. It is also worth to mention https://educatedguesswork.org/posts/public-wifi/ (biggest selling point for VPNs)

jonaharagon · 2023-04-12T17:57:30Z

The problem with all of MPRs (two-hop) is that they require some server (or servers) which relay the traffic and someone has to pay for those servers and their associated bandwidth.

Well, this is not a problem, all of our VPN recommendations are paid services, as they should be.

@dngray it's worth noting that I think "dVPNs" are a different sort of service than the multi-hop VPNs @quackerex was referring to.

privacyguides-bot · 2023-04-12T18:24:28Z

This pull request has been mentioned on Privacy Guides. There might be relevant details there:

https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/self-hosted-multi-hop-vpn-icloud-private-relay-alternative/12321/1

jermanuts · 2023-04-12T19:34:41Z

Well, this is not a problem, all of our VPN recommendations are paid services, as they should be.

I actually meant that you have to pay using your credit card to use these commercial MPRs.

quackerex · 2023-04-12T22:04:36Z

While the problem with tor is the 1st and 3rd nodes with MPRs (two hops), you have to trust the both relay companies to not correlate/share information about connected user.

Egress layer can route traffic through multiple servers. So they have to correlate traffic between multiple server providers (In this case Akamai, Cloudflare, and Fastly). I see this as impossible scenario.
However, this is not the case for VPN as someone can easily see your traffic at a central point.

It is also important to point out that ODoH is also used in MPRs which is similar to DNS over Tor.

quackerex · 2023-05-21T02:40:27Z

docs/basics/vpn-overview.md

@@ -83,6 +83,10 @@ You should also be wary that many VPN review sites are merely advertising vehicl

 [Our VPN Recommendations](../vpn.md){ .md-button }

+## Multi-Party Relays
+
+Multi-Party Relays use multiple nodes owned by different parties, such that no individual party knows enough to track you. This is the idea behind Tor, but now there are some paid services that try to emulate this model.


I think it is important to highlight that web browsing with MPRs is on par with non-proxied, and sometimes even faster (this is not the case for Tor or VPNs ).
This is achieved using the MASQUE (Multiplexed Application Substrate over QUIC Encryption) specification standardized by the IETF.

namazso · 2023-06-21T04:39:18Z

docs/basics/vpn-overview.md

+
+Encryption offered by VPN providers is between your devices and their servers. It guarantees that this specific link is secure. This is a step up from using unencrypted proxies where an adversary on the network can intercept the communications between your devices and said proxies and modify them. However, encryption between your apps or browsers with the service providers are not handled by this encryption.
+
+In order to keep what you actually do on the websites you visit private and secure, you must use HTTPS. This will keep your passwords, session tokens, and queries safe from the VPN provider. Always check for the lock icon in your browser's URL bar to mitigate downgrade attacks like [SSL Strip](https://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-dc-09/Marlinspike/BlackHat-DC-09-Marlinspike-Defeating-SSL.pdf).


should probably just recommend HTTPS-only mode instead, no one is going to check little locks everywhere.

I think the lock icon is going the way of the dodo anyway.

dngray · 2023-08-17T05:53:53Z

Merged into https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/tree/mfmyfw-pr-info

ghost added the t:correction content corrections or errors label Apr 8, 2023

ghost self-assigned this Apr 8, 2023

ghost changed the title ~~remove additional info section from VPN overview~~ Remove Additional Information Links Apr 8, 2023

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VPN ownership article for blog #2118

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jonaharagon added c:providers service providers and similar centralized/federated services c:guides full-length guides and content and removed t:correction content corrections or errors labels Apr 9, 2023

ghost marked this pull request as ready for review May 19, 2023 22:40

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dngray force-pushed the main branch from ac121de to 5835f89 Compare July 20, 2023 08:18

jonaharagon force-pushed the main branch from 5835f89 to af3f279 Compare July 20, 2023 16:22

jonaharagon force-pushed the main branch from 9acba8d to 83ea0d0 Compare July 27, 2023 21:03

mfwmyfacewhen added 2 commits August 17, 2023 15:10

remove additional info section from VPN overview

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VPN Overview Rewrite #2267

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VPN Overview Rewrite #2117

VPN Overview Rewrite #2117

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dngray commented Aug 17, 2023


		Encryption offered by VPN providers is between your devices and their servers. It guarantees that this specific link is secure. This is a step up from using unencrypted proxies where an adversary on the network can intercept the communications between your devices and said proxies and modify them. However, encryption between your apps or browsers with the service providers are not handled by this encryption.

		In order to keep what you actually do on the websites you visit private and secure, you must use HTTPS. This will keep your passwords, session tokens, and queries safe from the VPN provider. Always check for the lock icon in your browser's URL bar to mitigate downgrade attacks like [SSL Strip](https://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-dc-09/Marlinspike/BlackHat-DC-09-Marlinspike-Defeating-SSL.pdf).

VPN Overview Rewrite #2117

VPN Overview Rewrite #2117

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