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Increase 57 recoil to reasonable amount #77168
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For what I've seen, the |
If you have better numbers you think I should use I fully support any changes you suggest. :) |
I checked where the field was added and related commits (#31485, which is in turn the continuation of #30985 - specifically this post, and #45062 which is the PR adjusting the values accordingly). Now, for where the ammo gets its recoil. Skipping some commit history, it was reworked in #18362, quoting "scaled roughly equal to kinetic energy (J)".
In most cases the ingame recoil is higher than the IRL energy values, except for 556. I'm citing 762R because I personally use it for reference, and it's an outlier, in case anyone knows better. PD: I will update the documentation accordingly. |
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@Karol1223 I don't know if this would interest you but figured I'd show the above numbers to you |
...were you trying to ping Holli or... Why am I pinged on a gun PR, I am so confused. |
Because it provides an info source for doing a massive audit. And when I think of massive audits to correct bad information I think of Karol. |
weapon mods with overwrite_min_cycle_recoil could change the value, but the only one applicable to 5.7 is the robofac gun barrel change and that also sets it to 81
Now here's some of my digging trying to determine a good value for the recoil:
the value here being 6, at the time half of standard 9mm and equal to .22LR. This seems to be based on the mistaken idea that .22 LR and 5.7 are roughly equally powerful, (5.7 has around 50% more momentum and 3 times the kinetic energy) and the common claim that "5.7 has recoil similar to .22 [LR]" Wikipedia cites 3 sources claiming 5.7 has "30 percent less recoil than the 9×19mm cartridge", namely https://web.archive.org/web/20100122045316/http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/hg_militarytoday_200811/
edit: ^ is a result of measuring recoil in terms of momentum |
This PR doesn't touch the subsonic please read the json.
Please suggest an actual number in our recoil numbers for this and then while you are here make a suggestion for how much less the subsonic rounds should be. The 515 number I've changed the base round to is drawn from wikipedia energy listed for that specific round SS190. 31 gr (2.0 g) SS190 AP FMJ | 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s) | 515 J (380 ft⋅lbf) -- | -- | -- 31 gr (2.0 g) SS190 [AP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_piercing_round) [FMJ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_metal_jacket_bullet) 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s) 515 J (380 ft⋅lbf)I've currently left the subsonic round at -40 recoil because that will keep it in the new cycling range. |
Ah, I missed that the subsonic round has a relative recoil change. (turns out the hitchhiker's guide's "raw json" is not actually the same as the raw json)
looking at the old FN page (https://web.archive.org/web/20021212233833/http://www.fnmfg.com/lawenf/ss190/ss190.htm) |
I'm not seeing that on here but I am seeing this
The recoil impulse shows 2/3rds of the standard which if the standard round is 515 recoil in our system would make this round 340 which is still going to be around 110 recoil less than what our standard measurement requires us to put the cycling at. So at the moment until someone else comes along and audits bullet energy I'm going to leave the guesstimate of -40 recoil on the subsonic rounds. To go any further would require me to start editing things I have no desire to get into editing. |
kgm/s is "kilogram-force" eg. it's in terms of momentum. Currently as you said recoil is in terms of kinetic energy (half mass times velocity squared), (which happens to be physically wrong.) The subsonic round here would then be doubly wrong both realistically and even with the current system. the "min_cycle_recoil standard" was set by Rail-Runner in the PRs RedMisao mentioned, and there they give a specific exception for the 4.6mm and 5.7mm rounds: (incidentally, 4.6mm also still has that wrong 90 recoil despite around 500J of kinetic energy)
which results in 5.7 black powder having only 288 recoil after this PR. And the subsonic round deals less damage than the black powder round. So maybe there is no reason not to set min_cycle_recoil to say 330 though this does come down to fairly arbitrary decisions as there's no way to be consistent with all the conflicting rules of thumb |
Summary
None
Purpose of change
Adjust 57 recoil. While the recoil on a P90 is incredibly low it's not so low that subsonic rounds have difficulty cycling the action. Currently in game subsonic rounds cannot cycle the action.
Describe the solution
Increase recoil on base rounds. I didn't find anything suggesting our recoils are set on anything other than vibes so I thought about the recoil from different guns I've shot and assumed the recoil on the 30.06 is correct. Then adjusted 57 rounds upward a small amount that seemed fair.
Describe alternatives you've considered
Testing
Additional context